PurpleCar - Latest Comments in Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

PurpleCar — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:40:22 -0000

E-literacy and reading literacy are the skills to which I refer when I mention mastering various platforms. I've been following the e-literacy folks (many from England) for a while now, and they have a good point. Look them up here: http://www.ioct.dmu.ac.uk/

But great links, thanks. And sure, we can always bring the passion level down in any argument or observation, but neutralizing the issue won't get any progress made.

My main point is that we must push ourselves to expand our creativity outwards, and pull new inspiration inwards. It is up to us to marry the world of highly literate people in the traditional sense of literacy, and the newly literate mavens in technology. The internet is built on languages and is shaped by human behavior. My instincts tell me that if we could get more writers hooked up with more social media people and vice versa, the internet, education, literacy and e-literacy will spread more quickly and efficiently. And yes, that is my evil plot, to get the world reading and get them on-line.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

fauxpress — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:26:42 -0000

A brief moment with the notion of media literacy: until and unless you MAKE motion pictures, you've no idea of their power.

Very simple.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

DeniseD — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:32:57 -0000

I don't find the gap between writers and social media mavens as you described it all that surprising or alarming. And, I don't think it necessary that the two worlds merge completely. Marketers and product managers know that the world of consumers is filled typically with as many innovators and early adopters as it is with laggards. See the bell curve at http://www.quickmba.com/mar... Whether you’re the first on your block to use the newest cool gadget or tool has more to do with your willingness to take risks and embrace change than your occupation unless you assume that most “writers” are not risk-takers.

But I’m not subscribing to that theory, either. I think getting your work published in any medium involves a lot of risk-taking behavior. Besides, “writers” is a broad label…even if you limit it to those people whose main income is generated by what they write; it still leaves a very, very large pool. Consider journalists, technical writers, copywriters, speech writers, freelance writers, analysts, editors…I’ll bet a considerable number of them are active in social media channels, or at least active in those channels in proportion to the overall population of folks in other occupations who have broadband access, own their own up-to-date PCs, take the time to explore the Internet, and are confident enough to participate in the on-line conversation.

Perhaps the mavens are simply the early adopters/innovators on the social media curve while the “writers” as you've generally characterized them are the laggards. That’s not to say the “writers” won’t eventually come up the curve. After all, even luddites now carry cell phones.

Also, what type of literacy are you referring to when you say “But together, I think we can raise the level of literacy across all platforms and cultures. And, as we all know, more literacy means more peace.” Do you mean the ability to read and write or are you talking something like awareness and understanding across diverse cultures?

If you’re talking the ability to read and write, I’d like to think that getting more writers to consume social media would raise the level of literacy. But, I think that the issue of literacy is rooted in something far more complex than that. Doesn’t literacy correlate highly with socio-economic status and not how many writers use the newest medium to discover creative material or reach an audience?

I do believe that awareness and understanding of diverse cultures, races and ethnicities and embracing the fact that you are part of a global community that includes these diverse groups leads to greater tolerance and respect between groups. It reduces the fear of the unknown which, I believe, is really the root cause of prejudice and discrimination and the violent behavior that too often ensues.

Getting more people to participate in social media may expose participants to diversity and foster relationships that span that diversity, but only within the segment of the population that already has access to social media tools. What about those that don’t have technology—PCs and Internet access—at their fingertips? In many ways, these are the folks that need awareness and understanding the most. I’m just not sure that I follow how getting more writers to use social media will address that situation.

More food for thought on the topic of blending writers and social media…Here’s Robert Frost’s ideas on fences. This is "Mending Wall." If you go to http://www.pbs.org/newshour... there's a video of former poet laureate Robert Pinksy reading it.

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
'He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors.'
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
"Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offense.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall
That wants it down.' I could say -Elves to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, 'Good fences make good neighbors.'

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Thomas C. Archer — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:30:43 -0000

I think there is a common misperception that most writers are older and follow the old perception of the writer being a recluse, curled up writing long hand, afraid or against technological advances, etc.

I am a 35 year old author and recently released my first novel, Burnt Popcorn And Cheap Perfume. Iam not old, not exactly young, but I am internet and myspace addict. I consider myself
to be technologically educated. I've worked in the Information Technology field most of my life.

As we know writers come from all walks of life. There will be some who embrace the marketing potentials of the internet and others who refuse to participate.

I do find the comment funny about the book trailer, since I brought up that topic in a writing group just a week or two ago. It's not that I am against technology with regards to
the book trailer. I just find it to be an absurd concept, considering it is not going to do shit for an unknown beginner author like myself. Writing is an entirely different medium.
The only authors who may have people take notice of their work due to a trailer are the big name authors who do not need them in the first place.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Bernardo — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:40:33 -0000

I agree with you I have no problem with book trailers or anything else, especially for novelists because as a reader I know I'm making a major commitment by reading someone as I tend to obssess and book reader are generally very "name-oriented" even I am though I am primarily a filmmaker I concern myself with the plot and theme of a film rather than the director unless he be one of the greats, so for writer's to use a tool to make people look past the name on the cover of the book and want to read their book, whatever the means is a great idea. It almost worked on me and I still remember the name of that book so it may yet.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Jon — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 08:44:29 -0000

Fascinating conversation. I'm a writer and a semi-adopter. I've used myspace to some effect, but I don't have a book trailer and I don't blog anywhere near enough. I think there is a certain resitance to change/technology, but I think a lot of that has to do with time management. If you're writing and you have a day job, it's pretty intimidating to try to find the time to maintain a blog, etc., much less get past the learning curve to become facile with the technology. I'd love to do more, and I'd love to know more, but time is a real constraint. And until you're immersed in the networks, it might be hard to see how that time investment is going to benefit you.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

K.K. — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:04:49 -0000

Good article...personally I hate having to "Cyber" everything, but at least it's mostly done with a few keystrokes, rather than slaughtering endless trees.
Best, KK

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Paisano® — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:23:43 -0000

@2Di4
That's so funny. I tweeted earlier that if Hemmingway were alive today that he'd love twitter because of its 140 character limit and its brevity. Also said Dickinson would prefer wordpress and Kerouack would've loved tumblr.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

2Di4 — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:19:16 -0000

quite a conundrum...
my own evolution as a writer has forced me from elitist bar-corner poet to sell-out commercial copywriter, so i can empathize. i think there is a teensy-tiny little rip in the time-space continuum that allows for a moment when the two meet in the middle.
while i hate to admit it, there have been examples of crossovers (albeit idiotic crossovers). singer lily allen and part-time lesbian tia tequilla come to mind. neither are writers, but they did find wider popularity thanks to social media. so i believe there is hope for folks like us.
i have to think that faulkner, fitzgerald, hemingway, and the like would have been blogging away (and possibly webcamming...) given the opportunity.

it's a new world. the traditionalist ludites among us just need to sniff the cash, and then it's off to the races. mark my words: one j.k. rowling fond via myspace is all we need to start the revolution.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

PurpleCar — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:48:34 -0000

Jerry, Jim, Kerry! Thanks for coming! I totally understand the time commitment. I forgot to mention that most social media that's out on the web is total CRAP and isn't worth your writing time. Believe me, I've been wasting time watching it. But big things are happening. Maybe I can start an "Adopt a Literacy Partner" outreach? We writers can give ideas for storylines, add our perspectives to the media space, and we techies can baby step the writers through making their first blog. Short and sweet interactions, then literacy and e-literacy, storytelling and inspiration will spread. What do you think?

And ChrisBrogan, maybe Spin means that social media folks should be more vocal and focal about the books they love? People should have an idea that you are a bookworm. It's important. Right now, I don't think they do.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

fauxpress — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:32:13 -0000

I'm a hermit writer type who has used social media to get the hell out of the cave.
You say:

"Most writers don’t have any clue what social media and ‘web 2.0′ are. They have never heard of Chris Brogan (who seemed to call everyone I know last night) or CC Chapman or Jeff Pulver or Twitter or Qik or Seesmic. Writers, then, are like most people. Still in the dark as to what is coming."

I'm one who gets it is all I'm saying.

Made book trailers in the early 90's:

http://blip.tv/file/656423

But just really 'releasing' them now thanks to RSS.

This piece was seen at the Chicago Poetry Film Festival and on PBS for a while, but that was it. Distribution took too much time away from creating.

I lived for 15 years waiting for the technology to catch up with the ideas.

Now, it has.

The rest of the writers will move in here in due course.

Just found my ex-husband poet on YouTube. Finally.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Kerry Gans — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:10:30 -0000

PurpleCar, I think I am one of your hermit-type writers! All this pressure to be social-media adept makes me cringe. I consider myself pretty computer savvy in many areas (I found my husband online!), but I find my big problem is TIME. The more web content I need to keep up with, the less time I have to do other things. I already work a full time job in addition to writing, and the thought of launching a MySpace page, website, blog, etc. as well is completely overwhelming. And as soon as I learn about one thing, it seems something else has become the new fad. The speed of technology today boggles my mind, and sometimes I feel like the more plugged in I get, the less connected I really am to the things that matter - people, their interactions, their conversations, the beauty of the real world around us, and the absolute joy that can be found in being completely quiet and listening only to that little voice deep inside yourself.

I'm not a curmudgeon, and I am trying to keep up with the media wave, but unless I give up sleep, I fear I will continue to do little but tread water!

Kerry Gans

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

JE Gurley — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:46:37 -0000

Good article. I'm 54 ( just barely) and I'm slowly learning the wonders of the net. Mostly, I just use it to dig up facts for stories or find alternative words, but lately, I've set up a My Space site, a YouTube site and Bandmix account (I'm also a musician). I have a website and am trying to start a new Yahoo group - SciFiPi.

I've still got a lot to learn about all of them (Still not sure what Twitter is), but I'm not afraid to embrace the future. I prefer reading a book becasue I read about 800-900 words a minute when I'm cooking and a screen is too slow for that, but I understand the value of mass media marketing your books and even your ideas.

I'm slow to start and probably a slow learner (Mostly due to lack of time - I write 8-10 hours a day), but soon I will be able to blog with the best of them.

I don't have much time to keep up with other people's blogs but I do try to keep in touch with the publishing industry.

If you feel somebody beside you on that fence, it's probably me. (Unless it's very dark, there's a full moon and a fog is rolling in. In that case, be very afraid.)

Jim Gurley

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Jerry Waxler — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:25:56 -0000

This is a great topic Purplecar, and with 25 comments so far you're stirring things up. I think both sides of the fence take talent and time. It's hard coming up with enough of each to do everything right, so I just keep trying, hoping I'm putting enough energy into all the right places. The internet age is filled with infinite possibilities. Hopefully we can have fun and keep each other company as we strive towards greater heights.

Jerry

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Roger R — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:03:51 -0000

'made' I mean :)

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Roger R — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:02:00 -0000

just want to say your article is brilliant! ..and it made me think. Thanks :)

oh.. and Cathy Brooks: I do actually see twitts with exellent grammar every day. Things like twitter is here to stay, and it will influence language development severely in years to come.. so why not adopt some of the writing techniques you see online?

(btw I'm Norwegian and might have done a few peculiar linguistic errors) ;D

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Chris Brogan... — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:14:14 -0000

Hmm. Books and social media? How do you mean?

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Eric Rice — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:10:33 -0000

I'm always amused at how social media is some 'skill'.

You wanna know why it's easy to generalize? Because of how mavens appear to look at themselves in the mirror. I bet Scoble might read books, but you might not ever see it because he can't disconnect his phone from Qik.com. I know Brogan reads, but I can't recall if it's ever come up in all of his work and exploration into social technologies. Has it, dude?

If Christine is generalizing, it's probably for a reason.

Perception is 9/10ths, and if we're to be so brilliantly social, we need to stop failing so much. Because even if one inspires people, the message might be wrapped in an invisible fog of uncertainty.

Also, I highly recommend 'Silicon Snake Oil' by Clifford Stoll.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

PurpleCar — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:18:42 -0000

So I twittered that I needed non social writers to come comment, so I was in essence asking the social media writer fence sitters to find me some hermit writer types. Still working on it.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Roberta Frazier — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:19:16 -0000

@Chris

Yes, Chris, but you never sleep. And you blog, Twitter, Utterz, and drive several hours to work while doing all 3 - we have proof! :-) And I'm sure there are speakers for books on tape in your pillow...

Christine, great article. You straddle both worlds well. With a child on one hip and holding the hand of another.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

PurpleCar — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:21:36 -0000

Jamie and all! Thanks for coming. You are welcome here. No skillz needed. In fact, I don't even require English. And let me tell you, I have no real success yet as a writer. I'm still a novice, so no worries. Let's keep the discussion going.

Hopefully Chris gets my point. Didn't want to piss anyone off. But ya know, you can't really blog without miffing someone off. Paisano reminded me of this guy in tech named Robert Scoble - he likes to read on his new Kindle machine. But as I said, there are always exceptions. Chris and Robert are big exceptions, because the numbers of men in the USA that report that they read is very low. Check out this story from NPR: http://www.npr.org/template...

So, exceptions aside, there is a literacy and e-literacy issue happening here and we need to start admitting that it exists. That's all I ask.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Jamie Croft — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:46:24 -0000

I too am standing on the same fence. Except, instead of being a writer, I am a graphic designer, web designer. All of the information I look into on "Social Media" or whatever it is being called today, says that I need to develop new skills etc. I do not want to participate in the social media space just to be "cool", I want to learn new ways to communicate with people. I think that most of this is just a new way to communicate with each other. I have to admit, I have just started this and I have met people from all over the world that I would have probably never met. Just like you. I saw a seesmic video of you and then started reading your blog.

Again, this still leaves me here standing up on this fence. I just need to figure out how to use what I am learning in this new space and see how I can use it to my advantage.

ps it is very intimidating to write on a writers blog when I cannot write at all.

take care, Jamie Croft

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

fauxpress — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:50:43 -0000

Aw crap - the best discussion on a subject near and dear to me and I post an incorrect link to a page from the new media book I've been writing since 1999. "The World's Longest Open Love Letter."

http://blip.tv/file/702/

That's the correct link to an excerpt from the 2000 "Valentine's Day Parade" 'pages' from the love letter, including the genesis of its being called an 'open' love letter.

It's metaphrasty, this book.

It exists as film, poem, collection of short stories, short films, audioworks, interviews, other peoples' works, live theater, dance, fine art in the gallery, documentary, fiction. All of it.

And this is what the digital age has allowed me - as pure & eclectic artist - to tell a different kind of story in as many dimensions as the 0's and 1's will permit.

Exciting times.

Thanks for this discussion.

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

Paisano® — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:12:08 -0000

I really liked this. I love writing and web 2.0 so this whole blog is like brain candy to me now!

As for the discussion about seeing an author's work in a visual presentation vs keeping it all within the imagination of the reader, it reminds me of something I read about Ric Ocasek from the cars, one of my favorite bands ever (despite their Boston roots!). He said he wrote songs that were meant to be heard in the car on the radio and hated music videos because he preferred to let his listeners and fans writer/direct and star in their own music videos in their head. Guess that's why he called the group The Cars too, huh?

I used to agree with Ocasek on that matter but now I've grown to love all forms of a story or song. I can still create my own imaginary version of any book I read even after seeing the bastardized Hollywood version of the yarn. The same with songs.
Pai

Re: Out Riding Fences: Clash of the Storytellers.

PurpleCar — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:37:00 -0000

Fire it up, Chris Brogan. Gonna throw down!!!

Don't know who you're gonna throw down with, though. Not I, surely! Of course there are people who 'go both ways' in any culture clash. Superb to hear you are one of them! But let us not pretend that there isn't some resentment brewing between the general populous of both groups. You haven't felt it? Oh you, Maven and Writer Fence Rider Extraordinaire? This discussion has to come up. Outreach has to be made.

Deek warned me, I must say! He knew someone would pop up and be miffed at my generalizations. But as I said, I can't 'tag cloud' mere words. I must label, for now. Temporarily. Until the fence comes down like the East German wall. Besides reading and writing, Chris, what kind of things do you do to get some connections going between the most die-hard extremes of these cloudy groups? I look to you for leadership, as do many. I'm not being sarcastic. Well, not right now anyway.